Monday, March 03, 2008

Duke Cheats

That's sacrilege, especially for those in the school of thought that Duke basketball is as hallowed as UND football. Well, you already know what I think of Notre Dame football, so here goes:


I believe if Coach K doesn't break the rules, he definitely bends, skews and tweaks them. Lesser teams, coaches and programs might be decimated if they participated in such activity. Purdue doesn't play this team, so I have nothing to gain...I just don't think they're clean. Do I have evidence? Well, yes, but not directly. Here's my argument. Why have two of K's most notable branches in his coaching tree both been suspected of cheating by the NCAA? Because they learned from the best.

Quinn Snyder was run out of town because the allegations the NCAA brought up against Mizzou as well as the fact that once the Tigers were under the microscope, they could no longer win. Whispers of problems at Seton Hall and then Michigan were constantly rumoured...and now, there might be a formal investigation into Amaker's Harvard team because of potential violations.

I know, these guys are grown men and are responsible for their actions, and squeaky-clean K shouldn't be blamed everytime one of them gets a speeding ticket, but you learn a lot from a system. Krzyewski has accomplished some amazing things; his tournament record and 800 wins are jaw-dropping. Lot's of strategery involved in getting where he has gotten. But why haven't there been any successful coaches from under his wing? Problem for Mike's protoges is that they don't have the lee-way that the Blue Devils do (look back to an '04 investigation that no one seems to recall for proof). Here's the deal, the NCAA is as flexible and lenient as it can be for the big money makers of the college sports world. If it wasn't for these programs, Title IX, women's softball and other tremendously important programs wouldn't be possible. But unlike Durham, when you're at Missouri, you don't get warned, you get investigated.

I've had the argument with others, why does Duke need to cheat? They don't, but that didn't stop them from doing so, in my opinion. In the same way that Sanctions really didn't need to make phone calls to get guys to play for him at IU, K doesn't need to circumvent the rules to succeed...that doesn't mean he does not.

A few seasons back, the Dukies landed 4 McDs All-Americans in one class...and I don't care which school you're coaching, it's really tough to get 4 prima donnas to want to play on the same team. K has done it multiple times. I know they have tradition and not-so-subliminal reminders on commercials that Coach K(ommercial) is big time each time they turn on the TV, but, they also have a couple things against them that people don't ever seem to talk about.

Cameron Indoor, while kind of unique because it has hardwood panels throughout is still very tiny and not state-of-the-art. Duke's academic requirements (while not the same for everybody) are extremely high. The campus is simply filled with rich white kids (and only sprinkled with minorities)...and is located in the center of the woods in the south, between two not-so-large cities; not exactly urban. My point is, it's not the college basketball mecca that Dick Vital might see it as, especially through the eyes of a kid from an urban center.

My gut tells me that since a few years back (when he was regularly recruiting players that would leave after one-two seasons in Durham), Krzyewski's been smart enough to have done something Kelvin couldn't do- back away from the questionable practices, especially as they pertain to recruiting...so either he's wise enough to listen to the NCAA's whispers or not the egomaniac that many cheaters seem to be. And like I said before, they guy can coach, I just don't think it's all as white-washed as ESPN and Vital want us to believe in Krzyewskiville.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Clarification: Duke is in Durham, UNC is in Chapel Hill. Although both town are separated only separated by 7 miles.

boilerdowd said...

stupid error- my fault.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like you're really reaching. Duke wins a lot, so they must be cheating.

Sorry, I'm not buying your stupid argument. There were also charges against Keady when he was at purdue. Now, oh my God, Painter is winning. The apple does not fall far from the tree, now does it. Therefor, by your reasoning, Painter must be cheating.

Yeah, your hypothesis is really a stretch, dumbass.

J Money said...

Dude, he prepares you for life. American Express told me so.

Anonymous said...

Duh, haven't you ever heard of Corey Maggette?

J Money said...

Brave anonymous schmuck -- no name-calling...putz.

I don't think the argument was quite that simple... I think it was an editorial opinion, something we're all entitled to make. I realize, though, that there were a lot of words there and maybe you didn't take the time to sound them all out.

Anonymous said...

as a follower of the mizzou tigers, i will elaborate that snyder got run out of town because his last few teams merely underachieved compared to expectations; he never finished better than fifth in the conference. most of the allegations against him were likely concocted by former player ricky clemons, a man who lied and cheated his way through junior college just to become academically eligibile to play D-I ball. so i don't know if snyder cheated, but if he did he covered it up well - enough so that the only source for allegations was not a reliable one.

another note: the logic that "the NCAA is as flexible and lenient as it can be for the big money makers" kind of goes against what's going on at IU - aren't they a big moneymaker too? shouldn't the NCAA let kelvin's indiscretions slide since he's at a "name" basketball school now, unlike oklahoma?

Anonymous said...

way to bring the anons out of the woodwork

There were more than charges against Keady... the NCAA actually punished Purdue. I think Purdue is still counting some wins for Keady that the NCAA no longer officially recognizes.

I'm not sure about your rationale regarding Coach K, but it definitely makes for good reading.

boilerdowd said...

Just because you win doesn't mean you've cheated. I didn't say that, nor will I say that. I'm not going to give cliff notes for a one-page blog, there's more there than the items you've decided to focus upon.

It's an opinion, I've had it for a while and felt like putting it on my forum. Nothing more.

If you honestly think Painter's cheating, tell me why...or call names, both will really strengthen your argument.

J doesn't agree with me on this either, I'm never bothered by disagreement.

boilerdowd said...

mo- how has IU been punished?

boilerdowd said...

Nate, hardly anybody agrees with me about this one...I'm alright with that.

Anonymous said...

Don't use the word 'Krzyewskiville' again. It is hard on my eyes.

Purdue Matt said...

Coach K cheats because...

a) He lands good recruiting classes
b) What happened at Missouri
c) What happened at Harvard
d) Durham is a not too exciting town
e) Duke is inhabited by white, rich kids

This is lazy. You are reaching.

Anonymous said...

boilerdowd, i jumped the gun a bit. you're right, IU hasn't had any sanctions placed on them yet. perhaps it'll just be a slap on the wrist, but it's looking likely that they'll get punished by the NCAA in some form or another. only time will tell.

Anonymous said...

i also remember reading somewhere (it may have been here, i can't find the link) where it was discussed that bob knight didn't commit any recruiting violations due to the fact that his ego was so enormous, he felt he could win AND stay clean. why wouldn't his protegé, coach k, do the same? after all, you're arguing coach k's protegés are following his mold by cheating.

(here's a link to a knight story, not the one i originally read, but you get the idea: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-knight020408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns )

i'm not a duke fan. i root against them most situations (except against UNC). and i am certainly not one to avoid sports related conspiracy theories (see: 2004 world series, super bowl XXXVI, etc.). but i really don't see where you're coming from. like purdue matt said, he's guilty because some of his former assistants may have cheated, his school is in an "undesireable" location (i've been to duke's campus, can't really agree with that) and his teams are outrageously successful with a bunch of rich white kids? if that argument is true, it opens up the door to question most NCAA coaches. jim boeheim? lute olson? dean smith? jim calhoun? john wooden? did those guys cheat too?

dowd, you're right, everyone's entitled to their opinion. and sorry for the rant, but i just think this is an awfully bold accusation for something that has pretty weak supporting evidence, and i must disagree with you.

J Money said...

I disagree, too, but the fun of blogs is that we're not media members and to say something looks fishy, well, we don't have to have "proof." Hell, none of you have proof that Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens used steroids (that is, a positive drug test) and yet I bet you don't feel hesitant is stated that they did.

Just sayin.

RFS said...

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-ncaafavorites&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Hard evidence Duke does cheat (allegedly)

Scotty Leisure said...

MO Boiler:

The reason the NCAA is investigating/will punsish IU is because the University self reported.

If a bank robber turns himself in to the cops, they kind of have to investigate...

boilerdowd said...

MJS- Thanks a lot; I looked for that article for 10 minutes but couldn't remember the player named so was spinning my wheels. I just added it in.

I wonder if that might bring anyone a half step my way?

Anonymous said...

I do not think painter is cheating. But throwing out that a coach is cheating just because a) He wins more games than you think he should b) he recruits better than you think he should c) his proteges got caught. By your hypothesis, you can follow the "paper trail". Painter is winning, has a phenomenal recruiting class, and is connected to someone about whome there were whispers. I apologize for my outburst. But, your you built a house with no foundation. It looks like you are just slinging mud.

boilerdowd said...

anonymous; thanks for the apology and coming back to discuss. Please check out an addendum to the article thanks to MJS (above)...it shows that there's smoke here.

What does K always say- "I don't consider myself a coach, I consider myself a teacher."

Well, the method by which he taught two of his protoges led them into cheating. He only has 6 HC protoges and 2 have been CAUGHT cheating. That's a pretty bad record. Plus one has only been coaching for three seasons and another is coaching for a tiny school in the Southern Division.

Purdue Matt said...

Who will everyone be rooting for when Duke and North Carolina play? Personally, I have great respect for Coack K and what he has done. I will be rooting for Duke.

Mr. Anonymous said...

Yeah, I flew off the handle.

However, most of the family are Duke alum (myself a Boiler), so I generally strongly pull for Duke.

Anonymous said...

I live in NC and have watched Duke since they use to suck and nobody cared about the UNC-Duke game except UNC fans looking for an easy win. When I saw the Amaker story this is the first thing I thought. Snyder, Tommy...they learned that garbage somewhere. Coach K is VASTLY over appreciated. Good story and not to bold unless it hurts your Duke blue blood.

boilerdowd said...

Mr. anonymous & anonymous, thanks for contributing...I understand people have family that went to other schools; my brother and sister-in-law both went to Butler and IU; granted I can't stand either of them, but that's beyond the point.

Purdue fans should never root for Duke or Notre Dame. It's against our humble, level-headed nature (in case you can't get it, I am kidding).

I'm not rooting for Duke the rest of the season unless they play Memphis in the tournament...they'd be the less-cheating of two evils in that case. And yes, I'd root for IU v. Duke, especially with Sanctions gone. I won't have to worry about that though.

J Money said...

So you think Coach Cal and Memphis is dirty, too??

Anonymous said...

Not sure if you're still reading these comments, bdowd, but did you see Hoopraker's post today?