Yesterday, we shared with you some thoughts on the state of Notre Dame football. You know, our non-rival who is no more successful than Purdue over the better part of the past decade. Today, we'll take a look at the IU basketball program. I hadn't been planning to crush them like this, but there has been way too much obnoxiousness thrown our way by some in the IU homerdome. So suck it. You know who you are. The gloves are off.Creamed Crimson
We could begin our IU evisceration by discussing the absolute joke that Indiana University football is. We could start there and point out that two sub-.500 Purdue teams have now hung 100 points on the Hoosiers over the past two Bucket meetings. And how they actually think this was a step forward with some positives to draw on. Let me make something clear. When you go 1-7 in conference and 4-8 overall and there is anyone who thinks this is a bright season, you're a joke.
No, their football program hasn't been relevant in an even longer time than Notre Dame's. Their basketball program, though, is a once-proud pillar of basketball history. And no, that's not sarcasm. Five national title banners hang in Assembly Hall. The oldest is 70 years old this season. The most recent is 23 years old. That legendary team that Bob Knight took to an undefeated national title? That was in 1976, 34 seasons ago. They used to be a really, really good program.
One clown at another site actually took Purdue fans to task and, among many ill-informed things, said that Purdue's success in Big Ten championships was before the modern era of the NCAA tournament (implying they meant less, I guess), as though the modern format of the NCAA tournament has anything at all to do with success within your own conference. But if we want to use that barometer, one might also point out that if achievements largely accumulated before the NCAA tournament went to its modern format count for less, that eliminates all but one of IU's banners.
Times are a lot different now than they were in the '40s, '50s, '70s, and '80s. For one thing, talented players don't think Indiana and their circus warm-up pants and toilet of a gym are anything to get all gooey about. For another thing, racism is a lot less tolerated than it was back in the good ol' days. Am I right, Cletus?
Okay, I kid a little bit, but they (IU slack-jaws) can pretend all they want that Mike Davis being black had nothing to do with their lack of patience for him, but this is still a guy who (it appears) was a pretty honorable man who took a very pedestrian IU team to the Final Four in 2003 and still got run out of town.
In a true "You reap what you sow" scenario, IU brought in Kelvin Sampson to be the savior of their program (hey, look, ya'll, he's not even white!) and he was going to fix everything. Sure, he'd been a confirmed cheater at Oklahoma, but that was in the past. He's a good man! He's going to do things the right way!
Partway through Sampson's second season at the school, he was fired for cheating again. I state this so that those who read while moving their lips can even see it in print. This is a fact. He was fired. For cheating.
IU homers would tell you -- for a while -- that it was "just a few phone calls," and that it was being blown out of proportion. Then he was canned (costing IU a nice, big buyout) and once Sampson was gone, all problems were blamed on him and it was clear that all would be good again once the stain of Kelvin Sampson had been pushed out the door. (By the way, Coach Sampson's Web site is "currently being redesigned.")
Eventually, Coach Crean was brought in, to save the day once again. Crean is a good guy, it seems, and appears to be able to build a winner (he got guys to come play at Marquette, after all). But the suggestion that IU is anything more than a second-tier Big Ten team right now is silly. Oh, the mouth-breathers down South will still suggest that their program has some kind of cachet (after they look up what "cachet" means in a dictionary -- or have someone who owns a dictionary look it up for them), but that's simply not true. You know why? Because it's not 1975. Bob Knight is long gone, and Hoosiers is an old movie. Many, many, many other programs passed IU by in recent years. And unless Crean can catch lightning in a bottle again and get the next Dwayne Wade, what makes anyone think a return to glory is forthcoming?
To demonstrate their ineptitude, IU went down to Puerto Rico for the Puerto Rico Tip-Off and promptly got slapped by Ole Miss, BU and George Mason. Way to represent the Big Ten well, boys! This after they won their first two games at home, one of them a squeaker by 8 points over "USC Upstate." Who? Exactly.
Take a look at the IU schedule. Do you see any way they get to fifteen wins this season? I sure don't.
Ah, but you'll keep hearing "Just wait....Crean will have us back at the top soon!" But what is there to make us think this is the case? History? Ancient history? I don't know. One thing I do know is that there are at least seven programs in the Big Ten alone that are in a better situation and have a brighter future than Indiana. Yes, Crean could get them back to the top theoretically, but they're just like everyone else now.
So let them tell you about their banners if they must. Let them live in the 1970s. Let them accuse you of being jealous. Let them make up falsehoods about Purdue's history or IU's honorable nature. And then pity them. Because IU basketball, as they fondly remember it, is long gone.
46 comments:
I can hear the wailing and knashing of teeth all the way from west of the Rockies...
Well done, sir!
Ooohhhh, the Crimson Quarry is going to go after you like they did T-Mill the other day! Watch out!!!!
BTW, I was really hoping for a bashing of UM just to bring out the whiney 15 yr. olds from the Maize and Brew!!
Hey you leave the movie Hoosiers alone! That isn't an IU film its a high school basketball film and I happen to love it. Especially since Milan was in our conference in high school.
Bravo
I feel compelled to start a slow clap or something. Fine work, J Money.
Picket fence!
This goes very well with the ND football piece. I think those IU fans just don't see that it doesn't work that way any more. There are too many good programs these days to expect that any coach can take a team and magically cause them to succeed year in and year out. (Exhibit A: Bob Knight, Texas Tech.)
Hell, look at what Izzo has done at Michigan State. It's been nine years since their last championship (almost ten), and guess how many Big Ten titles they've won since then?
Two. And one was in 2001. Guess how many Big Ten tournaments they've won since then?
Zero. (Of course that part would work just fine at Indiana. They've not played in the final since 2001.)
I mean, Jud Heathcote was a pretty good coach, and Izzo is, by all accounts, doing better than Heathcote did ... and I guarantee you that what he's doing wouldn't be acceptable to some fans in Bloomington.
Mike Davis took them to the finals in 2002 and was fired after the 2005-06 season. (With, incidentally, a better career record at IU than Heathcote had at MSU. I'm sure that was all from Knight's recruiting.) It's going to take Crean a couple of years before there can be any real talk of that, and if they don't manage a good tournament run by then, he may be feeling some heat, even if he might actually be the best coach in the modern era at IU.
But hey, if he does get fired before he gets any meaningful banners in Assembly Hall, that's fine with me. They said in last night's game that for the first time ever, Tennessee had finished ahead of Kentucky for four consecutive years. If IU boosters want to help make that possible for us (to finish ahead of them), I'm all for that.
Of course with the way the team has been playing, Painter may not need any help with that.
Well, you guys have always been better at dishing it out than taking it, so it's better to see you slinging insults than to see you crying about my mistreatment of T-Mill, who seems to take such things in the spirit in which they are intended.
I have to correct one misrepresentation. I said nothing about Purdue's Big Ten championships. I said "Purdue fans care about history when it comes to the Boilers’ substantial lead in the head-to-head series with IU, even though the entirety of Purdue’s lead was accumulated in the pre-NCAA Tournament era, long before IU won even the dustiest of its banners." I'm talking about the head to head lead, not about Big Ten championships, and I use the advent of the NCAA Tournament as a the beginning of modern college basketball. I realize that at Purdue you guys are too busy doing things like shoving your hands up a cow's ass for academic credit to learn the nuances of English, but you could at least try to comprehend the point before disagreeing with it.
Once again, of course, while it's a mortal sin to make fun of another blogger's driving and tailgating skills, casual allegations of racism are well-received around here. Mike Davis's run to the 2002 Final Four (the fourth time IU has made it that far since Purdue earned that dusty trophy your boys were posing with in the Indy Star last week) is one of my fondest memories as an IU fan. Unfortunately, when compared to the other ~200 games he coached at IU, that run is very hard to consider as a reasonable sampling of Davis's coaching ability. Decent enough guy, but not a very good coach. If that (and supporting the school that integrated Big Ten basketball and produced the first black player drafted by the NFL) makes me a racist in your mind, so be it.
As for the other stuff, if you are suggesting that I have been peddling much optimism about IU's football program or basketball program right now, it's obvious that you haven't been reading. I do think IU's basketball program will be back, because that's generally the way it works in football and basketball. IU isn't the first elite program to be pronounced dead, and won't be the first to snap out of it, although you are correct that it won't be this year. Just keep pronouncing the permanent demise of your in-state betters, and I'm sure all will be well.
Guys, love(d) your site and I'm sick of ND football as much as anyone, but you're opening yourself up here. Looking back at your two "posts of irrelevancy", you claim that ND football stopped being "relevant" after the 1993 season (last shot at NC) and IU basketball stopped being relevant after Knight left, or after the last “dusty banner.” Let’s take a look then:
-Purdue vs ND football, starting in 1994 (aka not relevant and lost fewer than 3 games) - 5 wins and 11 losses
-Purdue vs IU Basketball, after the "dusty" banner (aka not relevant time 1) - 17 wins and 23 losses
-Purdue vs IU Basketball, after Knight retired (aka not relevant time 2) - 4 wins 11 losses
Again, these programs are both irrelevant but yet subject of 1000 posts a year. And they have winning records against your school since "irrelevancy." Maybe you want to re-edit your posts so you can skew the numbers so that the period of “irrelevancy” will coincide with a Purdue winning record. Again, not saying either school has been particularly elite in that time period; they’ve just been elite against Purdue.
I thought reading this site would be better after both of your teams (fball and bball) are on the upswing, but it really comes off as childish and bitter. Thought this site was about better analysis instead of Deadspinish takedowns, but consider yourself having one less reader (not that you care).
Oh, I see. Our head-to-head lead doesn't count. So only certain history counts in the state of Indiana? Got it.
Get lost, John. We've actually played nice with you and didn't take serious shots at you or your program(s) at all in recent weeks, months, not sure how long. The worst we've ever done is make fun of Fred Glass' silly ideas, the empty football stadium and, our most serious work re: IU, predicting the demise of Sampson.
I even commented recently that we'd all been not attacking one another during "hate week" and you then decided to attack. And, hey, that's fine, I guess.
However, you have more than once seen fit to push forth inaccuracies and made-up crap. For just one example, you implied that we suggested your two Bucket wins in the past 13 years "didn't count" because of bad weather or -- and this one was inexcusable -- that we said IU had an "unfair advantage" when Coach Hep died... which, seriously, we never were anything but respectful about a good man. You twisting that is just reprehensible, but not surprising. And, yes, it pissed me off.
For a thin-skinned jack like you to accuse us of being able to dish it out but not take it is laughable. Just like IU athletics.
You've also sought to personally attack/insult the PEOPLE behind other sites -- such as Travis or us. You're precisely the kind of IU "fan" that most of us detest. You want to attack opinions or put forth facts? Go right ahead. But if you want to act like a petulant child and make personal attacks that offend us or other far-kinder-than-us people (like T), then, yes, you'll have to put up with some retorts.
My only regret is we might give you some site traffic. Have fun with your next two-comment game thread.
MarkJacksonShimmey -- Clearly, you already don't read the site. If you did, you'd know that anti-UND and anti-IU posts make up a tiny, tiny fraction of our posts here. We spend every day putting up Purdue-related content and, again, if you think it's all about bashing UND or IU, well, you're simply wrong.
Second, to your point, you're clearly not reading for content. What does head-to-head matter with regard to whether UND or IU are the lofty programs their supporters think they are? Sure, they've had some success against Purdue. Big deal. Success against Purdue doesn't make your football program legendary.
Sorry you don't enjoy the site anymore, but you're sadly misinformed.
Best to you.
When does the hair pulling and eye scratching begin?
By the way an IU fan making fun of Purdue fans as hicks is like an Irishman calling a German a drunk
Bravo! *applause*
I live in Indiana. My contact with Purdue fans is not limited to reading your blog. Both online and off, I have been told by Purdue fans that the 2001 and 2007 games were won only because of unusual circumstances. As I told you in the response to your comment from a few days ago, the Purdue fan sitting behind me at the 2007 Bucket game claimed the refs were intentionally giving us calls because of sympathy for our coach dying. I've gone back and read the post in question several times, and I still can figure out why you think I was attributing the sentiment to you personally or your blog. My only mention of Boiled Sports in that post was a link to the site as a Purdue blog. I'm serious. Enlighten me. Why do you think I was talking about you?
As for T-Mill, he made a post making fun of my school. I made a post making fun of his post. Was I being a sore loser? Yes, I admitted as much in the post. If T-Mill was deeply offended by the post, I would hope he would let me know. I have reason to believe he wasn't. Again, I'm pretty stunned, given your posting style, that a little rivalry week sparring has you so agitated.
I think that was awesome! Pretty bold and I would never post that, but awesome!
A Purdue fan reads that and hears, "IU fans live in the past and everything is about banners and how things used to be." This is accurate. It's almost impossible to have an intelligent argument/conversation about IU basketball without 5 banners coming up. You won 5 times, that's great! Congratulations! You want a cookie?
An IU fan read that and hears, "Purdue is better and always has been, Purdue is better and always has been, Purdue is better and always has been." I don't know why, but that's what I think it is. Has Purdue always been better than IU? Heck no! We realize this and acknowledge this! Are we better now? Absolutely! Will it always be that way? Nope!
I think J Money gave very realistic opinions about many (obviously not all) IU fans. Of course there were a few low blows added in, but that's what Purdue fans and IU fans are supposed to do when talking about each other!
Chill out John! Just take it like a rival fan and dish out something else....
but realize that if you do things like equate "modern college basketball" and 1939, we'll be highly amused.
I am just glad that our basketball and football program both seem to be headed in the right direction. Basketball is in the top 10 and football ended the season on an upswing with a lot of promise of improved seasons in the future. No wonder IU fans are so bitter. But, hey, at least they have soccer and women's hoops...
@MarkJacksonShimmey,
Success against Purdue doesn't a program relevancy make.
It doesn't matter how old those banners are. If you were awesome 70 years ago, you're still awesome today.
Sincerely,
The Roman Empire,
Disco,
and Mullets
Great IU Beat Down! While I normally find it pointless to argue with stupid, fat, ignorant, irrational IU fans, it's fun to do it anyway, isn't it? I do hope they get competitive again so beating them isn't such an empty feeling like it is when we beat them in football.
And to "John" the IU fan, the very peak of this rivalry was Keady vs. Knight and Keady beat him head to head... and almost always with less talent. The "Basketball God/Genius" that brought you those 3 national titles wasn't man enough to beat his greatest rival coach. That is a fact.
FYI-Hoosiers was filmed in New Richmond, IN, which just happens to be just down 231 from Lafayette. MUCH closer to Purdue than Blowtown, so I consider that movie about Indiana basketball from OUR region.
So long, MJS. We hardly knew ye.
1997 IU Grad here, I agree we suck at sports right now. But I do believe this to be true which matters way more: IU student body is undisputedly more attractive than the PU Student body. Seriously its like 25000 Retarded, Club Footed Clowns procreated their entire CO ED Population. I would rather have sex w a bee hive filled w Razor Blades than dabble a single Boiler Woman, if you can actually call it a Woman. Rack me Romey
Mark, you are indeed an idiot.
IU does a good job attracting ditzy blondes to the campus, this is true...and the fact that IU has one of the largest gay male enrollments in the nation surely helps the ratio. But saying there aren't any attractive women in West Lafayette makes you an absolute buffoon. Careful, your lack of exposure to anything that's outside of Bloomington is showing. I'd say, as a man in his mid-30s that college girls are, as a rule, A-OK. Purdue girls are no different...there might even be a UND girl that's good looking out there.
http://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/ballhype/story_large/2009/07/20/purdue_girls.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/sioncampus/10/19/tailgate.report.purdue/p1_purdue.jpg
http://www.bustedcoverage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/purdue_arika_1.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0703/campus.cheer.purdue/images/DSC_9370.jpg
IU CHICKS: http://www.indiana.edu/~firstyr/matthias/hallway-group11.11.05.jpg
PU CHICKS: http://www.cellphones.ca/news/upload/2008/08/gorilla.jpg
Seriously????
http://www.purdueexponent.org/uploads/media/Image/patkeadyedit.jpg-3558-preview
http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2008/03/11/124458_Funny-Sports-Sign_620.jpg
Sums it all up right there
http://www.indiana.edu/~alphaphi/images/initiation.jpg
We have a winner
Purdue? Hahahahahahahahaha what a waste. Purdue fans have to knock IU and Notre Dame because they have no tradition of their own. lol Purdue is a joke. Iu has 24 national championships overall and purdue has one and its in women's basketball...lol hahahhaha...good luck purdue fans continue you your fan base by putting down other real teams accomplishments. Speaks a lot to your character.
Yes, there is a huge difference between IU and PU girls and guys, especially considering they are almost all from Indiana. The main difference I see between the two is that the Purdue student, on average, is way more intelligent than the IU student. Engineering, pharmacy, sciences require quite a bit more intelligence than liberal arts. There are exceptions on each side, but by and large Purdue grads are more intelligent and successful than IU grads- especially the women where at IU their main focus is an MRS degree. Also, doesn't Bloomington have the 2nd largest gay population in the US behind San Fran... I'll take my chances finding a real man at Purdue- one that doesn't think candy-striped pants are cool in any way.
Boilergal you stand up to pee like the rest of your ilk?
Only in B-town when trying to avoid the diseases left behind by the women down there... Behind Ball State, IU has the 2nd most STD rate of any college campus in Indiana. Purdue is 5th.
yeah not having sex w ugly Purdue women is a good safe strategy in my book
Ben,
IU has 24 national championships including 7 in soccer, enough said, and 6 in mens swimming, hence the large gay male enrollment. Purdue has had 22 astronauts. IU had a brother of an astronaut attend.
http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11745.html
Scotty Martin found the Purdue women so unattractive he gave up his Basketball scholarship, case closed.
And when was the last time an Astronaunt did anything for me?
Mark,
Judging by your posts you are the stereotypical IU fan that I grew up with and went to high school with. I am assuming you didn't actually go to IU because of you last post but if you must insist on me pointing out your complete and utter ignorance, I will. Astronauts conduct tests in space that can't be performed on earth because of impurities and gravitational effects. Medical and technological experiments in space help to improve health products and promote technological advances thereby improving your medicines and easing your everyday life. They also repair communications satellites that make your tv viewing and phone conversations more bearable so you can watch your pitiful teams from IU get beat again, again, and again.
Feeding the trolls seems to be proving J's point.
Yes, Doc Counsilman had a very, very nice program at IU, and it won six straight national titles ... but none since 1973. (Michigan's the last Big Ten school with a title, in 1995.)
Soccer is probably the only program with recent banners: titles distributed in the '80s, '90s, and oughts.
Yes, good for you, you win titles in men's soccer, we have a title in women's basketball. You have a number of dusty banners in various places on campus, that's nice. John M asked us not to count wins that occurred in the distant past; it seems only fair we ask the same of you.
P.S. We also have an old championship in men's golf (1961). So if you insist on living in the past, it's 24-2.
So astronaunts fight storm troopers? Did they blow up the Death Star? The good thing about being a Boiler Fan from Georgia you can marry your sister or first cousin, so you dont worry about hooking up w an ugly Purdue chick.
Mark,
Again, you prove my point. Enjoy your double wide and your hourly paying job.
Ironically I am an Astronaunt.
I discovered your mom on Uranus.
Ironically, all the townies like YOUR mom's anus.
I just figured out who that hilljack IU fan is in your photograph at the top of the post, IT'S MARK!!!
How did some fun banter about IU/PU sports turn into a gay bashing session? I haven't lived in Indiana for 20 years now... LA and Chicago have been my homes. Do you know what pretty much everyone outside of Indiana thinks of people from the Hoosier state? You are all mostly fat and surely racist and homophobic... not everyone, but pretty close. If some of you fat asses weren't dealing with swollen ankles and carrying around oxygen tanks, you might someday travel outside of Indiana... then you'd find that PURDUE is the only school from Indiana that is respected on a national level.
A final thought... pretty/hot women? From IU or Purdue? Funny. Checkout women from the SEC or Pac Ten... they are hot and in ten years they won't be auditioning as "Biggest Loser" contestants.
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