According to our pal Seth Davis, one of the primary reasons Notre Dame and Purdue have not scheduled a hoops matchup in more than 40 years is because Purdue isn't as much of a "national brand" as Notre Dame.Yes, he's talking about Notre Dame basketball.
You know Notre Dame basketball. All those Final Four appearances, national championships, NBA players, Big East titles, etc. Oh, and don't forget their 11,000 person capacity arena. Big time.
Some tidbits from the story:
Nobody seems to know exactly why the series stopped, but it never resumed in the 1970's because Notre Dame, which did not belong to any conference, was intent on playing more of a national schedule under Digger Phelps. In declining to play Purdue, Phelps further salted the wounds of Boilermaker fans by cracking that "there is no road from South Bend to West Lafayette."
Yes, we knew Digger was a douche and was simply afraid to play Purdue. Noted. "More of a national schedule..." Give me a break.
"I'd love for that to happen," Purdue coach Matt Painter told me. "I think it would be great for the fans, it would be great for the state of Indiana. We've tried to get it going here in the last five years, but they've been full with their schedule."
"I'd love to play against them. I think it would be fun to have maybe a neutral site game in Lucas Oil [Stadium]," Rob Hummel said. "You always love to play against competitive teams, and obviously Notre Dame is a great program."
Also, they didn't add, "We'd love to rub Scott Martin's nose in it."
I found Notre Dame coach Mike Brey to be far more lukewarm to the notion. "I think my mind is more open to it than any of the previous coaches who have been here," Brey said. "But you know what? Everybody in the Big Ten wants to play us. I get asked about it by the media every year because one of their coaches says they want to play Notre Dame. My answer to them is, we're in the Big East. When we get in the Big Ten, we'll take care of all you guys."
Imagine that. A Notre Dame coach with his nose in the air. Shocking, I tell you! But after all, we're not really rivals, right coach?
Also, everyone in the Big Ten wants to play you? Really? I find that hard to believe.
From Notre Dame's standpoint, there are three barriers to resuming a series with Purdue. First, the Irish now play in the Big East, which requires them to play 18 conference games. That eats up a huge chunk of the schedule, and since it's such a tough league it would be foolish to add too many difficult games outside the conference.
Ah, finally some truth. Nobody wants tough games outside of a tough conference like the world-renowned Big East! You know, like Purdue in the Big Ten. The Big Ten is so soft, Purdue has no problem scheduling games against Wake Forest from the ACC, Alabama on the road, and -- oh, lookey here! -- West Virginia from the Big East!
Second, Notre Dame still has a strong national brand. Unlike Painter, who gets most of his players from in-state, Brey needs to recruit players from other parts of the country.
Well, let's step back a second. Brey doesn't do this because his team's "brand" is so "national." He does this because he couldn't possibly recruit in-state the way Purdue or Indiana do. It's simply not possible, so let's not even PRETEND he could.
So he fills his nonconference schedule with teams like UCLA, Maryland and Alabama to increase his program's footprint nationwide.
And also because any chance at recruiting kids would take a serious hit if you got pistol-whipped on a regular basis by a bigger, better, more successful program just two hours away. Just saying.
So, anyway, the point is, those of you who were hoping -- like we have for years -- that Purdue and Notre Dame might play on the hardwood someday soon will probably continue to be disappointed.
Because, you know, Mike Brey is more big time than that.
20 comments:
Saw an interesting idea on GBI. Make the Wooden a two game event with Indiana and Purdue alternating every year between Butler and Notre Dame at Conseco. Like that wouldn't sell out.
Like someone said though, it would make too much sense to happen.
That WOULD suddenly be a must-see "national" event.
You're right. Too much sense. Too much interest. We wouldn't want that.
Idiots.
That would be huge, Jerry! HUGE!
Seriously, do we need to play them? No. Can we get more out of playing other Big East teams, or ACC teams? Yes. Is UND smart enough not to play either Purdue or IU in basketball? Yes.
In fareness, they are in a conference in basketball, so they have to work harder to schedule patsies for their non-conference schedule, unlike the football team. Why they didn't pick up Purdue in Keady's waining years is a bit of a question.
The Wooden idea is fabulous. I feel like 3 of those schools would be onboard, but ND would never agree, since they would lose on a regular basis to the other three teams invited.
If you coach at Duke, you're probably an arrogant fool.
If you coach at Notre Dame, you're definitely delusional.
Brey is the rare and fantastic combination of a coach who is arrogant, delusional, not-very-successful and unabashed in his speech. A mean combo!
Much like Weis, he's a great fit for that institution.
Ryan,
In the years where the Big Ten is too stupid to have Purdue and IU play twice it could be the second game while Butler and Notre Dame played each other for variety. Otherwise it would be:
year 1:
Purdue-Butler
Indiana-Notre Dame
year 2:
Purdue-Notre Dame
Indiana-Butler
and repeat. Shoot, they could play it at Lucas Oil and sell a TON of tickets.
ugh, i was hoping seth davis would be unemployed by now :(
I am so pleased that this deal won't go through... I would hate to play a team that made such a deep post-season run like the Irish did last season! That would be scary!!
Anyone else watch EsPN's College Basketball Season Preview? My wife isn't home yet so there's no one but the dog here to listen to my rantings.
I was foolish enough to think because Purdue starts the year in the top 10, they might actually spend a little time talking about the Boilers and I'm a sucker for seeing the old gold and black in HD. I couldn't have been more wrong. The closest we came was "Purdue is very good (but not great) with Robbie Hummel healthy."
Todd Gottlieb is clearly a scholar of college basketball. According to him, all you need to get to the final 4 is a couple of lottery picks. Experience, cohesion and depth count for nothing in his book. But this was only one of the many snubs crammed into a one hour program.
The first was the fact that the Big Ten wasn't even mentioned until 35 minutes in.
The next was when Gottlieb compared the basketball teams in the conference to their football counterparts. It was a "good not great" conference that lacked the elite talent that you need to win games in the tournament. The only elite player he saw was Evan Turner.
At this point, Andy Katz was the only reason I didn't kick throw my remote through my tv. He stepped up and called the Big Ten the best conference (as he did in his conference rankings on EsPN's website).
Gotti couldn't let this one slide and countered with this gem: "there's a reason that some of these kids came back to school and it wasn't because they were young." Apparently experience counts for nothing in his eyes.
Thank, EsPN, for the kind of top-notch reporting that made me give up College Gameday two years ago. They seem to invent new ways of talking about the same 10 teams.
Also, more on point, I guess we should just expect this kind of unabashed arrogance from the domers.
Wow, that is way too long. Sorry for killing the mood guys.
I decided to look at ND's non-conf schedule the last few years. They rarely play any Div I team from Indiana or the area. 2009 has IUPUI scheduled. 2008 had Indiana in the Maui. No games in 2007. 2006 featured a small win over Butler. 2005 had a win over IPFW. It appears they play any school but Purdue.
The best part about when Digger's teams playing a "national" schedule back in the day? ND losing to Valpo and St. Josephs College on ocassion... that sure was some "national" schedule!
Playing ND in basketball is of NO USE to Purdue; we gain nothing when we win, and should we lose, we would get to hear how great ND B-ball is from Digger, Beano Cook and Lou Holtz.
Capt Manana -- We wouldn't lose often.
Shawn -- when the wife isn't home and the dog isn't listening, we're always here for you, man!
Boilergal -- you're sassy. I hear Kramer likes that.
Oh, and arrogant, sweaty-looking, lazy schlubs like Katz and Gottleib are indeed great reasons not to watch ESPN. It also shows that even when dinosaurs like Vitale and Digger shuffle off this mortal coil, we'll have a whole new generation of ACC/Big East knob-gobblers.
How about MSU making the Championship game last year? How about more Big Ten teams in the top 25 right now than Big East teams, DESPITE the massive, overloaded size of the Big East? Nope, none of that counts.
Get used to it, folks. But they'll have to start paying attention at some point. Think about it... it's POSSIBLE that by early Jan, the top ten could include MSU, Purdue, Ohio State and Michigan. Possible. But they'd still disparage it.
Genius.
no-ter daim is playing Northwestern at home this season, I guess they only like to schedule teams from the Big Ten that think they could win. I really hope Northwestern cleans their clock. I did see a video on espn.com early this week where they ranked the conferences. Big Ten and Big Twelve were 1,2 respectively. The rest of the conferences were kind of mixed up. I do think espn snubs the Big Ten because of the BTN, they don't want anybody watching any of that weird shit called defense over there.
ND and it's asinine coach have been running from Michigan State, too. It's an article of faith amongst we of the green and white persuasion that after Magic and Kelser embarrassed one of Digger's best teams in the NCAA tourney, they refused to play us in hoops ever again. And since we don't typically go to the NIT, I guess they'll be able to make that stick.
Izzo said on his radio show that MSU has offered to play ND any time and anywhere, but they won't.
And remember this gem from Brey during the summer?
"If we could play in the Big Ten, maybe that would help us a little bit," he said."
Agree with T-Mill about the Wooden. Been saying the same thing for years. Get the best teams in the state down there at Conseco, make it actually worth watching.
Gottleib is a Notre Dame guy.
Just sayin'...
I attended the ND vs. Georgetown game last year when both teams were highly ranked. The place was about half full until 10 mins into the first half, then barely started to fill in. I'd say they had about 9,000 people there for a conference game. It was very quiet and the atmosphere was pretty poor, considering the national hype they were getting at the time. It truly is a joke program.
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