Commanding AttentionWe make it a point to post when Purdue news is coming down the pike. But honestly, Sunday's loss was like a punch in the gut to both of us. So in the wake of the unusual tourney upset for our Boilers, it's been a bit harder to do what we usually do- read articles, listen for the buzz and watch TV for emerging stories in a Purdue-centric sports world. All that said, the interwebnet is buzzing about something that needs to be addressed.
Matty's been named by a couple sources as a target of Missouri's coaching search. Sure, there's nothing from Mizzou or Painter that indicates he's been contacted. But, there's definitely smoke here...and why wouldn't there be? Painter's teams have averaged just under 25 wins/season the last five years. He took a Purdue program that was in the can in the wake of a legend retiring and made it a national story once again.
He's been able to lure big time talent to God's country, has helped develop players that were a bit off the radar and helped make Purdue a fixture in the national rankings again after a few years away from spotlight.
So when we hear that Missouri's athletic department might want to go after Purdue's head man, we understand why. Anderson, surprisingly to some (me included) has moved to SEC country to replace Pelphrey at Arkansas. Anderson had to pick up the pieces at Mizzou following Quin Snyder bringing NCAA scrutiny, and subsequent embarrassment, upon the program. Anderson did a great job...and like Painter, helped rebuild a program that was in bad shape (albeit for different reasons).
Missouri is kind of like Purdue in the fact that it tends to live a bit in the shadow of a couple monsters in their conference. And like Purdue, they've been able to even the playing field with a coach who recruits well for his system and gameplans and motivates even better. While Painter doesn't run a high-energy press like Anderson, he has a defense-first philosophy as well and knows how to win.
Missouri offered close to $2million to try keep Anderson in Columbia...That's a pretty large number and is hundreds of thousands of dollars more than Painter currently earns in West La La. Of course, Painter's numbers vary depending on the season and the incentives reached in that season. Burke and Painter negotiated a contract through '16 & '17...but one of the compromises reached was Painter had a free out clause in the summer of '11. Sure, that wrinkle in his contract only amounts to a $750,000 difference in buyout...and its timing isn't advantageous for a potential suitor, but it's still there.
Matt Painter is a loyal guy...but he's also a smart one. He's got a group of coaches who might be along for the ride if he decides to get into conversations with Mizzou. He also has a damned good Senior class and a bunch of players behind them that want to know he'll be leading them next season (and the seasons after that). Is Painter prepared to play poker with this situation? Who knows...but in my opinion, it's time to pay Matty as the market demands before this becomes an issue.
On the flip side, I'd rather not hear any of these negotiations see the light of day. If Painter decides to interview for this position, in my opinion, this exercise will have already gone too far. Back in the 80s and 90s, Coach Keady flirted with a few jobs outside of God's country, and no one won, in my opinion. It hurt Purdue's recruiting, it pissed off alums and Keady stayed at Purdue.
Everyone in the basketball offices has a chance to conspire together and make this all disappear before it's even an official story. Here's to that happening.
38 comments:
There are a couple of teams out there looking for a good head coach, but Mizzou will pay. If the athletic department, and Burke, would just pay the man, this wouldn't even be an issue.
I wish I could start a rumor that would get people this worked up. Matt Painter will coach at Mizzou right after Michigan hires Les Miles.
IIRC people have done exactly that. I think it might have been Ferentz-to-Michigan or something like that. Somebody just felt like tweaking the interwebs, posted on a board that he had heard from an anonymous source that Coach X was interested in School Y, and it took off.
It would probably have to be something like "I heard from a source that Larry Drew is considering leaving the Hawks and heading back to Missouri." Bonus points if you mention that Larry Drew II hasn't yet decided where he's transferring to, and wouldn't it be convenient if his father happened to be coaching somewhere?
I've been arguing on facebook with a couple of people professing to be alumni about Painter's future. They want Painter fired for the
Boilers performance against VCU. The argument is that Painter didnt adjust and cant win the big games. Alumni like these clowns are one of the weird aspects of the Purdue world. From my observance during my time on campus and as an alum, there is about 15% of the students and alumni who really dont/didnt like going to Purdue. This all too vocal group may be one of the reasons Keady implied he would consider going elsewhere back in the 90's. I dont think Painter is the greatest coach ever, but he fits in with the Purdue culture very well. I hope he doesnt listen to the malcontents and back-biters.
It's weird boxer- I feel like being critical is a good thing...if it's logical. But that sort of criticism is asinine. The person that says that has either never watched basketball or has tiny genitalia (meaning they're over-compensating for their own short comings by being a blowhard).
Purdue earned the loss to VCU a few weeks before the game when the team's chemistry radically changed. Painter's record in the tourney shows that he can coach...unlike Keady in the 80s and much of the 90s, Painter's teams have played at or above seed, except this season. Painter is a good fit and I hope he's at Purdue for a long time...and doesn't have wander lust.
The 50% of Purdue fans that have no passion at all might be worse for the major programs, in my opinion.
What the hell do those people want? Five straight 20-win seasons, four consecutive 10-win seasons and top-two finishes in conference play ... but one loss overshadows all that? And somewhere there's a coach who's available and will magically win all the games Painter does win plus the ones he doesn't?
We'd get a new coach and those people would complain that he didn't run a system they liked, didn't work well with the existing talent, whatever.
The losses to Iowa and Michigan State, and especially to VCU, upset me, but a season that ends with single-elimination tournaments will work like that the vast majority of the time. Haters need to hate somewhere else.
Why does all of these IU recruits have to hold a F'ing press conference to tell the world of their decision? This is becoming a joke. Now this Hollowell kid says tat he sees there is something specail about to happen in Bloomington and guarantees that he will get Gary Harris to come to IU. WTF? This will be a great ride the next few years watching these kids play to about half their potential.
By the way....shouldn't Matty be hitting the recruiting trail a little harder?
We should beg Lavin to come back and recruit for us.
Weren't IU and Cincinnati Hollwell's only two offers? Painter passed on him, as did tOSU. I suspect Hollowell isn't all that he thinks he is.
If Painter does leave, (I think these chances are slim to none), I would hope that Purdue would go after Steve Lavin like there was no tomorrow. He would out coach and out recruit this state like you have never seen before.
@distor
I am pretty sure if Painter goes we go after Cuonzo. He would come on the cheap compared to Lavin.
You're probably right....but I'd die to see Lavin darkening Indiana kid's doorsteps, getting them to come to Purdue....plus it seems as though he can coach a little too.
Given Purdue's snake-bit history, I already see the nightmare coming together:
1) Purdue is outbid, Painter goes to Mizzou.
2) Burke scours the Midcon ranks for a new coach.
3) Painter's recruiting classes look for new schools
4) IU welcomes the nation's best recruiting class
5) Purdue fades into obscurity.
Sigh.
I know it's a complete long shot, but I'd give anything to have Brad Stevens in God's country. Anything! I am absolutely not convinced on Lavin. He cannot coach in the tournament. I would rather have Cuonzo and see how that goes. St John's can keep Lavin. We need production in March. This goes without saying I still would like to keep Painter. GBI says he has been contacted by Mizzou and is their primary target. Any other news?
Burke wouldn NEVER go after B. Stevens.
#1 He's a proven, excellent coach.
#2 It will take cash.
Burke wants neither of these.
Btw,
Are comments edited off if they disagree with the group?
I have my last 3 of 4 comments post, only to go back the next day and they're gone.
They haven't been offensive, but they have been critical of Painter, JJ, and E'twuan.
Mark, we generally don't remove comments...have never removed yours.
I like Painter, but he has been an average tournament coach at best. No trips past Sweet 16. If he deserves a raise, Stevens deserves 2 raises.
People do tend to define a season based on NCAA tournament finish, but I think that's rather shortsighted.
This season, as a 3 seed, Purdue lost to a team that's in the Final Four.
In 2010, as a 4 seed, they lost to the team that won the tournament.
In 2009, as a 5 seed, they lost to a team that made the Final Four.
In 2008, as a 6 seed, they lost to a team that made the Elite Eight.
In 2007, as a 9 seed, they lost to the team that won the tournament.
This makes Painter an "average tournament coach at best"? If so, then perhaps our definitions of "average" do not match.
On the other hand, I agree that Stevens deserves a significant raise ... then again, given that he turned down a career at Lilly to coach, money may perhaps not be that important to him.
I'll give Painter this, VCU has ripped through everyone (aside from FSU). I'm stunned. What a great team!
But as my dad asked, "Would those kids even be allowed to attend Purdue?" Maybe, maybe not. I don't know.
I do know they are a talented squad.
Well color me officially worried. Mizzou fans are really chirping and gold&black.com is making some reports. Haven't we seen this movie before with Curry? Big 12 school comes a calling, we lowball the great coach, and they take their wares elsewhere.
Like I said before I think Martin would be the hire before Lavin. Our pockets are too shallow to pluck him from the Red Storm. Also anyone who thinks Brad Stevens would leave Butler for us is crazy. Aside from that we are like Michigan, only hire "Purdue guys."
Several years ago, the answer likely would have been "probably not". The link (all links are to PDFs) is to the 2009 report showing VCU's graduation rate for students and athletes entering in the 2002-03 school year. VCU's GSR was 47% (Purdue's was 64%) and their four-class average was 25% (Purdue's was 70%).
Now, it may be different. VCU's 2009 APR for men's basketball was 940, bringing their multiyear score down to 975; Purdue's was 1000, bringing theirs up to 919.
Of course, we're not really talking about the same thing. How a player does at VCU (in the first set of data) is not necessarily an indication of how he'd do at Purdue, or even if he'd be admitted, but it gives us a general idea of the relative ability of schools to get players who can get degrees.
The second set of data talks more about the overall stability of a program. I believe that transfers (out) do not count against a school's GSR but do count against their APR, so Purdue's more recent score reflects player turnover (Scott Martin et al) rather than players of questionable academic ability.
It's a well-meaning question, but then I don't suppose it's an excuse for Painter. After all, there are plenty of other schools with good academic reputations, stiff admissions criteria, or both that also succeed in tournament play from time to time. (See last year's final, for example.)
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Does this sound familiar?:
"Tiller is an okay coach, but he can't win the big games..." Look where that got us.
Do NOT throw criticism at Painter. He's a great coach and everyone (including Mizzou) knows it. When you're great at your job you get more opportunities. It's just business - talent goes where it can get paid. Would anyone of us turn down a shot at a substantial raise because "we love where we are?" I doubt it.
If Painter leaves, the only person we can be angry with is Morgan Burke.
I agree. If Painter leaves for MU, the only person that can be blamed for all of this is Burke.
If any boiler was thinking of grabbing Cuonzo to replace Matty if Matty leaves. Rocky Top has already beat you to the punch. Martin is the new head coach at Tennessee.
Again I love painter but just being devil's advocate here. He clearly lost control of the team at the illinois game. Any chance he was "shopping" during that time? Congrats to Cuonzo on landing a big time job. Now Burke needs to part with some coin. Just pay painter. That is all.
I posted this over at H&R, but here are my thoughts on Cuonzo getting the UT job in regards to Painter/Mizzou:
1. Painter and Martin are friends and have obviously been in contact throughout this, and Painter told him he was staying at Purdue so Cuonzo went ahead and took the UT job. Hooray.
2. Digging deeper here, but Lusk removed his name from the NIU job because he knew all this was going to go down last week. He knew Cuonzo and UT had already had a deal in place for a while under the table, and then removed his name when Painter told him he was probably going to Mizzou so he could potentially be in the running for the Purdue job. Boooo!
Thoughts?
If that's true, shame on Painter. If this turns out to be about the benjamins and nothing more, then it's all Burke's fault. If Painter did anything like that and leaves his alma mater and Robbie Hummel hanging, then good riddance to him. I hope that isn't the case. I do wonder how long this has all been going on though....
theres a rumor flying around that painter quit and it'll be announced tuesday... however like I said its a rumor and have no sources yet. and that's the extent of my knowledge.
could this be the downfall???
If you look hard enough, there's a rumor for everything. People who have skillz on the interwebs can spread them pretty well, too.
I went back and looked at Rock M Nation's profile of Painter, and it basically said "Painter to Missouri lolno." In fact, they weren't even sure why he would seriously consider it ... the only reason he'd consider it in passing is to get money out of Burke, and we all know that's a pretty difficult thing to accomplish.
It's not a move up in terms of opportunity, or conference, or background, or anything. Missouri's a nice school and all that, and I could see someone like Zo taking the job, but let's be honest, Painter's at the school he loves, and if he's going to leave, why take a step sideways or down?
Besides, there are a couple of coaches currently in the spotlight who will be in much, much greater demand than Painter is. Stevens may be as closely tied to Butler as Painter is to Purdue, but Shaka Smart could do worse than to listen ... the Big not-quite-12 is definitely a step up from the CAA.
Just to show the stupidity of MU fans: from the dispatch comment board...
ramnzou said on: March 27, 2011, 1:11 pm
Matt Painter would be a homerun hire for Alden, but would it be a homerun for Missouri long term? Obviously Indiana is his dream job as it's the king daddy in his home state, so if he's successful at Mizzou then what would keep him from jumping ship as soon as IU comes calling? Painter would be a great coach but we may be right back here again in 4 or 5 years, or less.
***
Yup, Matty is using this as a ploy to coach the "3 championship banners" squad. Watch out Forehead!
Good Luck Zo!
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6264533
If Painter leaves, Burke better work his ass off to tap Brad Stevens. But I have a feeling it will be someone like Link Darner (nothing agaist Link).
I don't want Painter to leave-- he's a great fit, he appears to like West Lafayette, and let's face it... Mizzou isn't exactly a basketball school so a couple middling years in Columbia would spell the end of his career trajectory. Here's hoping that this is a wise and overdue play to get Burke to take the crowbar to his wallet-- surely there are a few John Purdue Club members that can contribute to his salary??
If he leaves... well, dammit. But at least there are plenty of excellent coaches out there. I was an early Cuonzo supporter, and I'm thrilled he is moving up even though it isn't here, and I'd love for Lavin to come though I'm certain he won't for the rea$on$ mentioned above.
It'll be a massive step up, but why not former team captain Linc Darner, once a teammate of both Matty and Robinson? He has been killing it as head coach at Division II Florida Southern, and has amassed an eye-popping 109-50 record there, his teams are consistently ranked, he has taken them to the D-II tournament in all but his first season as coach (take out that year, and his school record jumps to 101-30), and has won several coach of the year awards. Despite the school being in Florida, Linc still recruits from Indiana and the midwest in addition to the south, oh, and he's the son of a coach as well. Like I said, it's a helluva jump from The Sunshine State Conference to the Big 10, but this guy has the chops, the resume, the recruiting connections and the school ties to do it. Oh, and I'm sure that an offer from a D1 school-- even from that tightwad Ebeneezer Burke-- would be better than what he's making now.
Linc Darner's profile follows (it was written before the 2010-11 season and does not factor in this year's record or tournament appearance):
http://www.fscmocs.com/profile.asp?playerID=21
Burke could do a lot worse. I fear that he might.
BoilerByBlood, you beat me to it-- I honestly think that if he is tapped, Linc -would- struggle, at least initially. But I also think that long-term, he'd be great and being an Indiana native there is little chance of him using Purdue as a springboard and resume builder...
Um, isn't Larry Brown looking to get back to the sidelines? And why is Joey Meyer spinning his wheels in NBA-D-League?
Turn off the lights folks...
//But I also think that long-term, he'd be great and being an Indiana native there is little chance of him using Purdue as a springboard and resume builder..//
Didn't we think that of Painter, as recently as last week?
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