Purdue up 16 on Michigan State! That's un-possible!
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
Even ESPN's Graphics People Didn't Think Purdue Was That Good
Since we're going the "This picture says it all" route today -- and hey, with Erin Andrews making an appearance, it's been a red-letter day for pictures -- here's another one that says a lot. Well, I mean, it says a lot when you're a beaten and broken Purdue fan like me who has seen the media ignore or marginalize his school for many, many years. For all those times we get told we're making it up, here's yet another fun little slap... this one courtesy of the ESPN graphics department. Below is the screen as they came back from halftime to begin the second half, with Purdue leading 34-18
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21 comments:
Not surprising!
J Money, you are on a roll. Some producer should lose their job for that mistake...
Not surprising.... After the game was over I read the story on ESPN and at the bottom of the righthand sidebar they had "Big Ten Standings". Purdue was listed 4th because they decided to order it by overall record instead of conference record. Does that make any sense??? I thought to myself, they just can't stand to see Purdue in 1st!
I did not catch that flop on the halftime score though. Thanks for sharing!
Not to mention that Andy Katz today referred to Purdue as a glorified mid-major program, where Keady was good enough to piece together good teams from time to time. What is he talking about?
Did Katz really say that? I would love to see a link and/or video of that, but he does not have any right to say that. He's a Badger, and exactly what did Wisconsin basketball accomplish before the Bennett/Soderberg/Ryan era(s)? Just wondering. If he wants to talk about hockey, I'll give him that (RIP "Badger" Bob Johnson), but he's a basketball reporter. If, in fact, he really did say that, he needs to get his facts straight.
Attention Mr. Katz: Purdue has won more Big Ten titles than any other program, and has a winning record against every other Big Ten program all-time (although Ohio State is close in head-to-head).
Personally, I just think he's bitter over Saturday.
--Eric
Katz blows.
If you want to hear Katz say it, go to the ESPN men's bball page and click on the link for the podcast called "Indiana fallout" right on the front page. It's a while before they get to IU, and one of the things they talk about before then is Purdue's "glorified mid-major" program that just so happens to be leading the Big Ten.
This link might (not) work:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?context=podcast&id=3243905
Perhaps he calls it that because of our lack of big name recruits the last few years. Just a thought. ND, Butler and IU have outshined us up until last week.
I just listened to the clip. He had some reservation in saying it. He said because Purdue is under the radar, not in a major city, doesn't get the top 40 big name recruits.....stuff like that. But sheesh, we have a few down years and all of a sudden we have become Evansville or something!?
I think the problem is that Katz has the mentality of a 15 year old...he only remembers back 5 years...before that, was anything really, like important???
You'd think Purdue producing a second-round NBA pick, and a 2nd-team all Big-Ten-er...along with making it to the round of 32 and playing the eventual champ as tough as anybody would be more shocking...for a mid-major.
Katz, like ESPN, can suck it.
Guys like Katz and other talking heads will be down on Purdue overall as a program because we haven't gotten to the Final Four in the era of the tournament. Back when Wooden was playing at Purdue, they won a national championship (I believe - got to double check that), but nobody cares about that stuff. A program is measured by how it does in the tournament, and Purdue has always managed to fizzle out before getting to the Final Four. I think that will change in a few years when Painter gets a team there. Probably not this year, but I think they have a very good chance in the not so distant future.
Purdue made it in the abridged NCAA tournament twice- in 1969 (32 teams) & 1980 (48 teams)...the national championship from 1932 still counts...it just was from a system similar to the current college football system- A winner was awarded based on record/ranking at the end of the season.
I've always detested Katz. He takes himself WAAYY too seriously, never smiles, and has always made me think he's the pompous, sweaty, ex-fratboy that he probably is.
Yeah, glorified mid-major... that's professional. What an ass.
Yeah, they made the Final Four both of those years. The issue is that they were both before Keady took over, and Keady is the most indelible image of Purdue basketball, at least right now. It doesn't help that the best player on the 1980 team was Joe Barry Carroll, who became known in the NBA as "Joe Barely Cares" and was important in allowing the Celtics to abuse the Warriors through acquiring, essentially, Robert Parish and perhaps the next-best player in the Big Ten that year (Kevin McHale of Minnesota), who led them to three titles. Also, the other great Boiler baller in that era, the Big Dog, has had a good, but not great, NBA career. Essentially, since Keady's first year, and since the tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985 (becoming March Madness in the process), the Boilers have only gotten as far as the Elite Eight, and those teams were essentially teams, without any major superstars (save Robinson, of course, and let's not forget that nobody else wanted to touch him because he was a Prop. 48, and that's essentially the same reason that Dwyane Wade ended up at Marquette, although Prop. 48 had been phased out by then).
That's the point that Katz was trying to make, and it almost pained him to call them a "glorified mid-major." He said that they didn't attract top-20 recruits (not top-40), and even this year, he would be right, since E'twaun Moore was the highest-ranked at 35, and although he was the second-best player in Indiana, Eric Gordon was number two in the nation. Johnson was 42, and Hummel and Martin were both in the 70s. Also, these guys are planning on staying for four years, and in his view, that doesn't happen at the "big" programs anymore, since they all have at least one early defection to the NBA (i.e., before they begin their junior years). That's why he referred to Purdue as a "program," as the Boilers bring in guys who are committed to building a team there, and are not merely looking for the quickest way to earn a guaranteed NBA paycheck.
--Eric
Man, Gittle! You're just the apologist today, eh?? Heh.
Fair points, though. But you still should choose your words wisely if you're on ESPN, right?
We'll see how things play out. I think Purdue is going to be a force the next few years and that will only improve recruiting. Imagine a recruit doing a visit during Tuesday night's game.... and then considering IU and seeing the mess Sampson is creating there. Purdue is on the way up and IU is shooting themselves in the feet right now... kind of too bad, b/c I'd rather see IU stay a clean program and our rivalry start to get to the Duke/UNC level again.
When I was there, Dickie V actually said our rivalry was matched only by that one on Tobacco Road. Always liked that.
Katz and the media can find fault with the fact that Purdue has players that intend to stay in college for four years a la Butler...They're doing OK, right? I was talking to my sister-in-law about Butler's team and how much I wish Purdue would have landed Howard. But, he fits as a Bulldog and the players Purdue has fit as Boilers.
If Purdue is not typical in this day and age in college basketball, good for them. Many conferences are trying to NBA-ize the college game with rule changes on charging violations, time outs and other specificities about the pro game. Problem is, it's not the pro game. IU had three national championships with really only two significant NBA players. Duke has been the benchmark for college basketball success and until the last 7 years (one of their least successful periods under K) haven't had a lot of guys succeed in the league.
It's just fine that Purdue is building a solid college program...Let Coach Sanction, Huggy, Calpari and the like make their teams into 1-2 year stops for future NBA players...and don't blame Purdue and Matt Painter when college basketball becomes a sport that's unwatchable, because they didn't contribute to the NBA-ization of the college game.
Glorified mid-major? I'm going to rant now.
That sounds more like Memphis to tell you the truth... I mean, they play a conference full of patsies. But NOOOO... they have John Calipari who's from the east coast, and he brings in top 5* recruiting classes of players who stay 1-2 years! Let's glorify them!
Hey. Nothing against Memphis and Calipari is a tremendous coach and they are a good program... but you could make the same case for them.
That just shows how asinine ESPN and its pundits are. What are Katz's credentials to be a college basketball expert?
*note, Purdue had a top 10 recruiting class last year (some had it in the top 5 on signing day)
B-dowd and J-Money - Why does tradition count at every other school except Purdue? Specifically in basketball, why would they (networks) continue to belittle the alumni and fans of one of the bigger schools in the nation which actually has won in the past?
I guess no-one knows, and I've heard the final four excuse. I don't believe that's the sole reason.
When we look back on Gene Keady, we see a fiery competitor who developed undertalented kids into a perennial Big Ten power... He graduated kids for the most part and stayed out of trouble. I couldn't be more proud, yet, he didn't make the Final Four. It's like Dan Marino wasn't a good quarterback or something.
I'd rather have long sustained success on Gene Keady's level than 1 Final Four year.
I guess Purdue's not sexy enough.
However, I don't care if you don't like to cover the Purdue program because it doesn't make you money (or whatever reason). But do not make Purdue out to be the Luxembourg of college basketall!
(wow, maybe i should start my own blog.)
J-Money, I didn't say I agreed with Andy Katz. He's a good Jewish guy, but that doesn't mean he's always right (and sure enough, a number of my fellow Jewish friends and classmates ended up in Mad-town, just like him). Take a look at the first comment I posted. I went and listened to what he said, and that's my interpretation of it.
That's the problem with this year's schedule. They come to West Lafayette on an official visit, and the game is down in Bloomington. Nothing like empty arenas, eh? Well, I was in awe of Mackey when I first walked in there on a visit (in April), so I guess a recruit would feel the same way. Still, they need to find a way to get home-and-home protected rivalries for basketball the way they have the protected rivalries for football. Just playing every team at least once doesn't cut it in basketball, and I don't think they want 20-game schedules.
And the Purdue-IU rivalry is one of the greatest in the game, especially when both teams are competitive. SI On Campus said as much a few years ago. However, I am not shedding a tear over their current predicament. Dakich will probably become the coach, they will probably have some scholarship penalties, and perhaps a postseason ban, but I don't know about that. Remember when Corey Maggette got in trouble for getting paid by his AAU coach and lying to Duke about it? The NCAA did nothing, because it's Dook. Granted, Maggette wasn't playing for them anymore, but the bigwigs in Indy have a peculiar way of going about business.
And Dowd, I am with you 100 per cent. I love college basketball. I also love European basketball. Although the Euros are professionals, they generally play for the love of the game (it doesn't help that they're almost all on one-year contracts). After Joventut won the Copa del Rey (King's Cup) recently, they cut down the nets, and Rudy Fernández, who will be playing for the Blazers next year in all likelihood, was overcome with joy. My first thought was that he will never experience anything close to that in the NBA. I can't stand the NBA as much as you can't stand it. I'll still watch the Celtics and follow them, but I will not watch a run-of-the-mill NBA game (Clippers-Bulls, for example).
By the way, Joventut's point guard, Ricky Rubio, is 17, he is good enough to play in the NBA right now. He's the real deal.
--Eric
BP, Coach Cal is not from the East Coast. He's from Pittsburgh. I know, to you guys, that's close enough, since he coached at UMass and with the Nets, and he's Italian, but Moon Township, Pa. is closer to Ohio, so it's practically the Midwest. ;-)
Purdue had a great recruiting class. Nobody's denying that. However, its strength is on account of its depth and not because of a flashy anchor. I like that, as do you, but it is what it is.
The problem is that Keady never made headlines the way that Knight and Digger made headlines, and while we all have our opinions of them, and none of them are good, the mass media wants compelling stories and conflict and that sort of thing, because they generate eyeballs. A program in a small town in northwest Indiana (WL population: just under 29,000) is just not compelling to these guys.
Back to the NBA for a bit, it's why nobody really wants the San Antonio Spurs to form a dynasty. They're an old ABA team with no identifiable flashy stars. They're just not interesting. All they do is play the right way. But that doesn't provide instant gratification.
That's how it is. We don't have to like it, but that's the situation.
--Eric
You Krazy Kids and your Katzes...
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Florida just win two national championships because it built up its program and kept guys for 4 years? If Purdue gets a good true center that fits in Painter's system (echoing Dowd's comments), then I don't see why Purdue couldn't pull off a couple of Final Four trips and maybe a championship. Don't see why Purdue can't do what Florida did with this group.
No comments about IU's loss last night???
Yes and no. Noah, Horford, Brewer, and Green were there for three years; Humphrey and Richard were there for four. But, yeah, they stayed together, which is rare. In fact, they bucked the conventional wisdom by coming back after the first championship; everyone thought that while Humphrey and Richard probably would have stayed, Noah, Horford, Brewer, and/or Green were certain to come out after they were sophomores. They didn't do that, and all the credit in the world to them. They wanted to win one more, and they did. However, for the most part, if players are told that they will be first-round picks and receive guaranteed three-year contracts, they don't want to chance that.
--Eric
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