BTB Roundtable -- Rivalry Edition

(UPDATED 8/5): New proposed IU logo added down below)

Special thanks to Gopher Nation for launching the first Big Ten Blogger Roundtable of the new season. And to think, the Big Ten Bloggers group basically started as a roundtable discussion group and has morphed into.... well, I don't know. A bunch of no-good, do-nothing, slackers who love college football/basketball and make obscene jokes all day.

Anyway, this roundtable focuses on rivalries. Below are our responses. (Well, my responses, anyway. Tim and b-dowd are too busy with "work" and other such nonsense. I am only busy dodging tropical storms.) Enjoy.

1. ESPN's Adam Rittenberg recently ranked the top 5 rivalries in the Big Ten and there were some controversial results (Illinois v Ohio State as #3?). Clearly Ohio State vs. Michigan is the #1 rivalry in the Big Ten, but give me your next three. Your school does not have to be included in this list, but regardless of who you choose defend your picks.

Well, I’m sure OSU and UM is the biggest to OSU and UM fans, but I think other schools might beg to differ. I assume we’re just talking about football here, because clearly this list is very different (and OSU and UM would be lucky to be on it) if we were including basketball.

To answer the question, yes, I guess OSU and UM is the “best” rivalry, although if both schools were having down years I wonder how great it would be. But yes, part of what makes it great is that they rarely do have down years and so often meet with a lot on the line for one or both.

As for the next three after that… well, I think that’s tough because I don’t think most conferences have all that many compelling rivalries. I mean, the ACC is known for basketball and we all know the Duke-UNC rivalry, but after that, who’s the second best? Kind of hard to think of, right?

For the Big Ten, in football, I guess I would agree with Rittenberg that Michigan-MSU is up there, too, since there in genuine hate and condescension in that one. Minny and Wisky is interesting, too, and would be more interesting if Minnesota could ever put together some sustained success. The proximity and long-standing nature of this rivalry is something that makes it almost worthy. Another I’d mention that doesn’t get much press is Illinois-Northwestern. Sure, it’s not some kind of “official” rivalry where they play for some old relic of an item, but again the proximity and cross-town nature of this one makes it on the cusp of legitimacy. Imagine if NW puts together one of their surprise years this year and Illinois can build on last year’s resurgence – suddenly, these two would have reasons to hate one another.

Of course, I’m biased, so I also need to mention one of the longest-standing rivalries in the country, Purdue-Indiana. This one, too, while borne of genuine despising one another, could be perked up even more of one or both schools would make themselves more relevant. When Purdue was climbing the national radar map (there’s a mixed metaphor for you), IU was simply terrible. And now IU is beginning to come out of the doldrums and Purdue is leveled off at mediocrity. If both programs were strong and/or one team came into the rivalry game NEEDING a victory for a magical season to continue, then I think this one would be on the national consciousness.

So will I rank them? Sure, if I must.

1) OSU-UM 2) UM-MSU 3) PUR-IU 4) MIN-WIS

(Also, silly Gopher Nation, Rittenberg has Illinois and OSU at #4, not #3 – equally ridiculous, though.)

2. Obviously winning every game is important and beating really good teams sends a stronger message than beating Minnesota. Assume every team is .500 this year and the outcome of your next two games means nothing outside of pride and a year's worth of bragging rights. Give me the two schools you would want to beat (in order) and why. What makes beating School's A and B significant?

I don’t think I’m alone in saying that the two schools we enjoying beating the most are Notre Dame and IU. And this question seems to be asking that if we had to pick two teams to beat and nothing else mattered (i.e., their strength-of-schedule, ranking, etc.), who would we pick? And this is significant, because in a year where Purdue has a shot at a New Year’s Day bowl, we’d of course want them to beat a one-loss OSU team more than a 6-loss ND team. So we’re talking pure fun of beating an opponent… And for that I say Notre Dame #1, because their arrogance, delusion and obnoxious nature make them more fun to destroy than anyone. And #2 is IU, because they’re IU, they’re in-state, they’re a historical rival (kind of like why the Montagues hated the Capulets or the Jets hated the Shakrs) and, well, crimson and cream is ugly.

3. Take the two teams from above that you claim are your biggest rivals and give me a new mascot for them.

Well, Notre Dame’s should seriously be retired because it’s offensive, obnoxious and stolen. And what should they be? Well, since they play in the depressing burg of South Bend, maybe they should be the Dust Clouds. Or the Notre Dame Fighting Manatees, after their genius coach.

As for IU, Hoosiers is actually kind of stupid already as a mascot because nobody really knows what it is. Locals will tell you a Hoosier is a person from Indiana. Okay, so they’re the Indiana People From Indiana. Hey, presto! There’s a new name. More to the point, you know? And easier to grasp for those with an IU "degree."

4. There are some new rules in college football this year. My favorite is the Big Ten experimental rule which states that after every win this year you get to pluck one player off their roster and bring them back to your campus. Looking at your schedule give me two players you would pluck (assuming a win), why you would take them and what would you do with them?

Is this only from games we think we can win? Or from any team on our schedule?

I’ll say Beanie Wells, for one, so we can tie him to a goalpost and pick on him for going by “Beanie.” Seriously, come on. Second, I’ll go with Jimmy Clausen so we can give him a tour of a school where quarterbacks go to be better quarterbacks. You know, just a service we’d like to provide.

Then we'll give him a wedgie and make him eat pickles until he pukes.

5. Brian at MGO was kind enough to post a diary entry which gives us and new coach Rich Rodriguez a list of Michigan traditions that maybe we were not all aware of. This has inspired two final questions...

5A - are there any Michigan traditions that he missed? (here is your chance for some Michigan cheap shots)

Having spectacular seasons interrupted by hiccups that make them non-contenders. You know, like starting 0-2 and then running off like 8 wins in a row. Oh, and crushing Purdue’s hopes and dreams. That's another tradition at Michigan that they probably didn't even know of.

5B - Are there any traditions of your school's rival that we should all be aware of?

At IU, they have a tradition where when they take the overhead photograph of the stadium for the media guide, they do it during a game against Ohio State or Wisconsin so that the stadium is full of people wearing red. That always makes me chuckle. Because it's so very, very sad.

In addition, thanks to reader Christopher who sent us this awesome new IU logo. Thumbs up!

Springtime Roundtable...Can't wait until September.

1.I love spring. Flowers blooming. Birds chirping. Bones breaking. ACL’s tearing. List the injuries your team sustained and describe their impact on 2008.

It was a pretty good spring for our Boilers as not many new injuries occurred. That said, the offensive line was pretty banged up coming into spring and couldn't get the reps that it needed due to recovery time. The same can be said for the oft-injured Torri Williams. He was coming off of his third serious injury of his Purdue career. Greg Orton and Desmond Tardy were both out of spring ball as well due to minor injuries.

What's this all mean? Well, it meant that the Spring Game was not nearly the contest it might have been. The tight ends looked great, but that could be because the two best wideouts weren't really an option...and it's always difficult to gauge an offense with a patchwork o-line.

I'm pretty optimistic that these players being shelved during the spring won't hurt Purdue too badly in the fall, in fact, it might help since most of these guys were vets who knew their roles. In a perfect world, everyone would stay healthy...In West Lafayette, this wasn't too bad at all.

2.Break down the major position battles going on with your offense.

The battle for starting center looked like it was going to be pretty tough, but ex-walk-on (and fellow Cathedral alum) Cory Benton took control of the spot during the last few weeks. It was clear at the spring game that he and Painter seem to be on the same page and he can consistently make the shotgun snap unlike some of the guys vying for the job.

A really fun battle that has been going on for the past two seasons is that between Sheets & Taylor. Both have looked good and both have started, but Taylor, once again, seems to be the guy coming out of spring. A surprise to me was to see Jared Crank overshadow Frank Halliburton at the fullback spot...Hopefully, Hope's whispers in JT's ears will actually produce some meaningful downs for the fullback in '08. It seems each year it's talked about, yet it never gets added into the playbook.

The last position battle I see as intriguing is Ken Plue v. about anybody who stands in his way of a starting position. He's large, and looks awfully talented for a 19 year old...One thing seems clear to me is that he will be able to create a seal on running plays unlike any Purdue lineman in the past 7 seasons.

3.You knew this was coming. Break down the major position battles on defense.

Two battles in the defensive backfield are both very interesting to me. First, David Pender looks to be the real deal at corner...but the other side will be very fun to watch as Purdue has two good options for starters. It looked like it would be Royce Adams job at the end of last season, but Brandon King, a natural corner will probably be moved back from safety during summer practice. Plus, as a wild card, Charlton Williams will see significant playing time as he seemed to "come on" during the end of the season and bowl practice last year.

The second battle might not be a battle between players. It's the aforementioned Williams spot at strong safety. He's definitely the most capable guy back there, but the coaches will have to wrestle with the idea of holding him back a bit as to not get him injured YET AGAIN early in the '08 season. When healthy, he's an all-conference-type guy...sadly, no one's seen much of him since his freshman season.

4.Who are the unknown kids on your team that will be household names come December?

I don't know if he's unknown, especially to Purdue fans, but Jason Werner is a guy that I think will have a loud year in gold and black. He's finally healthy and looked very good in the spring. His combination of speed, size and smarts makes him someone that might become the best linebacker of the Tiller era.

I'm also a big believer in Desmond Tardy. I felt like Dorien Bryant, while talented, took way too many plays off. I don't think Tardy will do that, and the slot receiver is an important one in this offense. By default he'll have a lot of catches, but I think he'll be a difference maker as he eases some of the stress on Greg Orton next season.

On defense, Keyon Brown will remind all of us how important the speed rush used to be in the Brock Spack defense as he'll display shades of Rosey and Phillips in '08. Opposite him, Kerrigan will remind a lot of people of Spencer as he has the size that the above simply don't have.

5.How would you describe the general mood around your program? Are you gearing up the tailgate party for a conference title run or do you get the impression there are going to be a lot of empty seats in your stadium this year?

I think that the energy around the program is a mixed bag right now. Some fans are pleased that Tiller will (barring a disaster of epic proportions) become Purdue's winningest coach in '08. Others, myself included, feel like the program is standing pat a bit. I'm excited to see what the coaching shifts will do to the defense, specifically.

As a fanbase, things should be steady. Purdue probably won't set any school attendance records, but will have a nearly full stadium for every game except Northern Colorado & Central Michigan (it's tough for a fanbase to "get up" for a third time in one year v. a single opponent...especially one from the MAC). I think most fans are thankful for what Joe Tiller has done, but are also looking forward to see what Hope will do with the program. So, is Purdue in football purgatory? Perhaps...at least we're not in football hell, which, if you're older than 20, you probably remember it quite well.

Big Ten Bloggers Roundtable: Put-It-In-Sharpie Week

Every week, one of the awesome Big Ten Bloggers hosts the weekly roundtable discussion questions. We were late to the game, as you might recall, so we don't get to host this year. Maybe next year. Depends if we behave which, you know, is never a sure thing.

We've participated in the roundtable before but we're far from consistent with this. We're trying again this week, just because. Don't ask questions -- just enjoy our drivel.

This week's roundtable is hosted by Buckeye Lane.

1) With the Big Ten season about to be wrapped up, it is a little easier to predict what Bowl games are possible for your school. Tell me what Bowl games would interest you as a fan. Where do you want to go? More importantly, who do you want to play?

I actually don't think anything's clear on this yet. For one thing, we have three weeks left and a logjam of teams hovering behind OSU and UM at the top of the conference. If OSU indeed goes on to the BCS title game, then everybody jumps up a slot in terms of what place you're in within the Big Ten and thus, what bowl game you likely go to. And then complicating matters even more is the possibility of what happened to Purdue a few years ago when they had a better record than a 6-6 Iowa team but the Alamo Bowl people picked Iowa anyway, feeling that Iowa would travel better. So who knows?

Right now, ESPN seems sure that Purdue will be playing in the Insight Bowl, which sounds about as exciting as a Sunday afternoon poop. Sure, it's nice to have but there are other things you'd rather be doing. The Insight Bowl wouldn't be the worst place to be for a bowl game -- it's on New Year's Even in Tempe, Arizona. A lot better than El Paso, Texas, I think we can all agree.

But the Insight Bowl is officially slated to be for the sixth-place Big Ten team against the sixth-place Big Twelve team. Yowsa. If you look at the Big Ten's current standings, and for a moment you assume OSU comes out of the mix since they'd be in the BCS title game, we're sitting third. And that also means we'd have to fall all the way back behind Indiana and just ahead of Iowa. I don't think this is going to happen, pessimistic Boiler fan or not.

Back to the question -- I think the Outback Bowl, Champs Sports Bowl and the Alamo Bowl are all reasonable and acceptable postseason spots for our Boilers. And my personal preference, as a fan, is for them to head to the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio. Great town, and I'll be living in Texas by then. So it's for selfish reasons.

As for who I'd want my Boilers to play, well, that's a tough question, too, because the matchups in bowl games are designed to bring in cash and multiple fan bases -- not to feed a rivalry. How else can you explain the following matchups:

Big Ten No. 2 vs. SEC No. 2
Big Ten No. 3 vs. SEC No. 3/4
Big Ten No. 4/5 vs. Big 12 No. 4/5
ACC No. 4 vs. Big Ten No. 4/5
Big 12 No. 6 vs. Big Ten No. 6
Big Ten No. 7 vs. MAC No. 1/2

What do we have against the Big Twelve? I mean, sure, I think it's far less of a power conference than the media has always thought, what with teams like Baylor in the mix... but otherwise, I don't get it. I mean, if Iowa matched up against Iowa State, I'm sure that would matter to people in corn country but for the other matchups? Not so much. Purdue played in the Alamo Bowl in '97 and '98 and beat Oklahoma State and Kansas State in very exciting games. Still, though, I barely remember who they played.

So if I have to choose someone, I choose Notre Dame. I'd like to kick their asses again.

2) In honor of Black Shoe Diaries’ question about the Big Ten Moron Coach of the Year Award. Tell me who is the most disappointing player in the Big Ten this season. Also, tell me who is the most disappointing on your team.

I saw the fine folks at Lake the Posts chose Curtis Painter as their most disappointing player in the Big Ten. Kind of harsh, especially given his solid numbers this year, but not completely out of line. I think Curtis has done a fine job with this team in general and has fallen into line with what the coaches prep him for -- beating the bad teams, losing close games to the good teams, and being pistol-whipped by the very good teams.

As for picking the most disappointing player in the Big Ten -- there are always guys to choose in this league, but I think I will go with a tie: Jake Christensen of Iowa and Anthony Morelli of Penn State. Yes, they're two QBs and are thus very visible but they're also two guys who were supposed to be fantastic QBs. Christensen I've seen in person and he's just... not good. He's not accurate, he's not consistent, he doesn't make good decisions or adjust well. Now, I realize he's only a sophomore and his overall numbers aren't that bad but, still... look at his game against MSU (which he won!) -- 5 of 15 for 53 yards! Owie!

And as for Morelli, well, he was supposed to be a blue-chipper when JoePa snagged him for PSU but he's really been nothing special in his time there. If the Boilers lose to Penn State this weekend -- which they will -- it won't be because Morelli mowed them down.

Who is most disappointing on the Boilermakers this season? Well, I'm sure people could come up with several guys there, too, but I'm going with Selwyn Lymon. I think overall the Purdue offense has been good and the defense has been... not horrible. I think -- and I know my co-editors agree -- that a lot of the missteps of the 2007 Boilermakers can be easily laid at the feet of the coaching staff. But I'm digressing, as usual.

Lymon was the kid who last year torched Notre Dame's secondary for 200 yards receiving -- and then put together less than 400 yards over the rest of the season. Lymon wears number 1, which there's been some grumbling about, and yet he doesn't perform like the wideout he's supposed to be. Lymon's big game this year has been six grabs for 66 whopping yards against, cough, Central Michigan. For the season, through nine games, he has 267 yards and two TDs. Simply unacceptable for a 6'4" wide receiver at Purdue.

3) Ohio State is rumored to be building a giant buckeye nut outside the football stadium. This will lead to the new tradition of “rubbing the nut.” I’m sure Michigan fans will use that against us. I know it is pretty late to start new traditions in the Big Ten, but pitch me a new tradition idea for your school.

I have a new tradition idea! Let's begin a tradition of ten-win seasons, national relevancy and trips inside the top ten every 3-5 years! Oh, you mean things like rubbing nuts? How about the players erotically rub Purdue Pete's hammer after every win? Or after each win, Pete swings his hammer into the opposing coach's balls? Wouldn't you just love to see Fat Charlie or JoePa doubled over after a hammer to the beanbag?

BONUS ROUND
- You are a big-fight promoter - Talk up your team’s mascot and how/why they could kick the living crap out of any opposing team’s mascot.

He's a freakishly giant, muscular guy who makes boilers and carries a massive hammer. How much do I have to talk him up?

- Now you’re an agent - Convince me that you have the top 2008 NFL Draft pick on your team -

Now you're just being silly. We don't have any such player on our team.

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Oh, and what's the "put-it-in-Sharpie" reference at the start of this long-ass post? Well, two weekends ago, when discussing the rest of the season with boilerdowd, I commented on how I really didn't have any hope any longer of us winning big road games when we're the underdog -- meaning this weekend at Penn State. We don't win these kinds of games. Boilerdowd couldn't agree more and gave me that great line -- "I think you can put that one in Sharpie."

There you have it.